Introduction Transformations Oral History

Mill View, Brighton


Interview 13 November 2013, with Tamsin Williams for Transformations Project, covering time spent in Mill View Psychiatric Hospital, Brighton, 2000 to the present, and time spent in Eastbourne General Hospital. Also see 'Warning: May Contain Nuts' for an account of being taken into psychiatric care under a Police Section 136.

Interview by Jon Potter

Jon

So this is a recording on 13 November 2013. I'm here with Tamsin Williams and we are talking about time spent in Eastbourne General Hospital, the psychiatric hospital 2002, we are also covering time spent in the mother and baby ward at the residential clinic in Eastbourne, and time at Mill View in Brighton. Tamsin, thanks very much for agreeing to share your stories with me, um, to begin with, how did you come to be in Eastbourne General Hospital in 2002?

Tamsin

I had a, I suppose you would call it a breakdown, after being burnt out by work. I was working in a public school at the time, and it was very stressful, it was actually after 9/11 had happened and um, I had a breakdown shortly after I had finished the job, and before I started another job, in a period of a week, where I lost an enormous amount of sleep, which basically sent me manic, which involved me being sectioned, and taken to Eastbourne hospital. And there was some confusion because they had assumed I needed to go to Eastbourne, that was it, because I was picked up at my dad's house, so they took me to Eastbourne hospital because that was within the constituency. And so um, I realised when I was at Eastbourne hospital, and they were very nice there, not a bad place to be, they quickly realised from my partner that I came from Brighton and therefore they had to transfer me over to Mill View. I think I maybe stayed a couple of nights there something like that.

Jon

Okay, um, how about the time at the mother and baby unit, when was that?

Tamsin

That was when my daughter was 10 weeks old, um, in 2007, and um, again a similar situation, except I had a baby, where I lost a lot of sleep, around, I'd been up north, to see my mum, she had just got engaged to her husband, and I had come home to the fact that I needed to get ready to do a naming ceremony for my daughter, and I had a week of suddenly just not being able to sleep. I just completely lost it, a very similar thing, where I got very manic and then, they had to call the ambulance and I had to be driven to, well I didn't actually know where I was going, but I ended up in Eastbourne and, at a clinic which was very good.

Jon

So in the mother and baby unit, were you there with your daughter?

Tamsin

So what happened, I was in the ambulance, they didn't want me to take the baby in the ambulance, so that was a bit scary for me, because I was separated from her, but then when my baby came with her grandparents, and my partner in another car, and when I got to the baby unit that was very frightening because I was swearing a lot, and didn't want to go into the room, and they had to sedate me which was quite frightening, to have police do that, they all did it very sensitively, but it was still very frightening because I didn't know where I was, and I kind of thought I was in a hotel, because it was a very nice place, but didn't know really why I was there, and my daughter, it's interesting because I can't recall how that happened. I must have seen her go past, because I think before they sedated me I saw my partner take our baby upstairs to a separate room, or I heard that, and I knew that she was there, but I couldn't see her.

And so then they sedated me, and the interesting thing is, although that was really horrific, and I had to be injected and all sorts of stuff, nasty chemicals, horrible haloperidol, which is the drug that I had to have in 2002 which is a very severe drug, and any psychiatric doctor or nurse knows that that is a very very extreme drug and they only really use it in extreme circumstances, but I needed to sleep very desperately, and the woman I spoke to in the morning, the nurse said Tamsin you were transformed within one night. So even just having that one night I went from a swearing crazy mad person to completely okay the next day. And my baby was, because it's a big unit, it is like a hotel, and it's lovely, and it's got lovely showers in the rooms and stuff, and I'm very sad that people, especially months, don't know about this place, because it really is, honestly there are wonderful people there, and um, my daughter was in a separate bit, where I couldn't hear her, but they very quickly brought her down to me the next day, and they were very happy that I wanted to continue to breastfeed, and that was a very new thing for them to deal with, because they are not used to that, so it did mean that I had a week, of these very horrible drugs being in my body, but they said to me very reassuringly that if you do want to breastfeed that much, we will happily help you express and get through this week with these drugs, and then we can reinstate that, enable that to happen. So I can't fault their care, the nurses especially, more than anybody else, were wonderful

Jon

Um, I think we'll move on now to talking about Mill View, because you have been to Mill View on and off is that right?

Tamsin

Well I have had five sections, but that, those sections include the fact that I was in Mill View in 2002, before I had my baby and then I was in Mill View again after this period of time when I was in the mother and baby unit. So I was sectioned again…

Jon

So, how was your treatment at Mill View?

Tamsin

Very varied, Mill View has changed a lot over the years, which is quite amazing, in 2002 it was not a nice place to be, it was quite a frightening place to be, it was very much like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, very much patients waiting for medication, being agitated, finding a place to be, because it was quite dark, then the wards didn't have access to the outside, and I was in a locked ward. I have been a couple of times, but when it was not nice in 2002

Jon

What was that Ward called?

Tamsin

Regency I think, but I have been in almost every ward…

Jon

And is Regency one of the ones underground?

Tamsin

Yeah, it's downstairs, but I'm thinking about the one upstairs, but the one that, I think now it's a man's ward I don't think it has women. But the thing is, environment is very key when you are trying to recover, and if you are in a place that is very dark, which has very little access to light, and also very little access to going outdoors, there was an outdoor space, and I would go out there but it was quite frightening because you are in a locked ward. You are not allowed out and that is not nice for anyone and I actually think, years later after having Neve, I was in that ward again, because I have a memory of being in a very dark ward, and Nick, my partner, coming to visit me, and me seeing my daughter through this door, and how hard it was to get to her, so I have a feeling that I did go back to that.

Jon

Can you put a name to those wards, just for historical accuracy…

Tamsin

Yes, I can because there was a time when I was in Mill View and they were having, well Regency was definitely the one that I was in early on, 2002, but they have had a lot of refurbishment, and I am trying to remember the names of the wards, because I was transferred from one ward to the next during a time when they refurbished the wards. So I remember very distinctly going from a ward that was not nice, to a ward that was wonderful, Meridian Ward. Meridian Ward is there now, and Caburn which is over the other side of Mill View and they have a lot of light, they have access to the outside and the whole experience of the ward was completely different. I cannot say how different that was, and the other thing about Regency, I think its Pavilion that's up the top, where, and it's quite scary, I remember being at the top in a room and the only way of getting outside was to go down a tunnel so you had to go down a slope and out.

And I think one of those might be a women's ward, I get that confused as well, Caburn and I know for definite was, is a very good ward because at the time I was there there was a manager and I can't for the life of me remember her name, because she is absolutely brilliant, Kavita, that's her name. And complete, she's still working in the mental health system, she just knew exactly how to talk to the patients and knew exactly what women needed, and she would give us these little beauty treatments and be really caring and humorous and sympathetic. Quite a young woman but just knew exactly what we needed and just did that job.

Jon

So what has been your most recent stay at Mill View?

Tamsin

Mmm, my most recent, I don't think I'll ever get it out of my head, was 2010. And in 2010 for the first time, I was admitted through my own permission. And that means if you don't know about the logistics of it, sectioning is when somebody has to sign papers kind of for you because you are in a state where you have got too extreme that you can't actually say that you need this help, um, the situation that came up that I ended up giving my permission was because I fell into a very very deep depression and up until those moments all my sections had been under mania so, and this depression actually belonged to a drug it didn't belong to my own constitution.

And I am absolutely positive about that, because I was put on a drug in the mother and baby unit called olanzapine, and I know that they put me on that because I wanted to breastfeed, and they probably, as far as I can identify with thinking about it, the psychiatrist probably thought if this woman wants to continue to breastfeed we know this drug might be okay, therefore we keep it at a low amount, and we will see how it goes. Which was all right, I continued to breastfeed, it was okay, and what was interesting was the actual transition of stopping breastfeeding that then the drug hit me really bad. Because I think, and this is my theory, that I was breastfeeding and that was helping me relax, it was keeping up my bond with my baby, it was giving me oxytocin, it was making things okay, but I knew at some point I was going to stop breastfeeding and the other was, I didn't feel particularly well. I felt flat, and I felt it persistently, and I even rang up the clinic in Eastbourne and asked them, and said look I am on this very low-dose of olanzapine, is there a possibility this drug is making me depressed. And they said yes. They know more than I can they are psychiatric nurses. But every time I went to the doctor, the GP, they would say we can't take you off it, you are only on a small amount, in fact one GP actually said you are on a baby amount, which I think he felt bad about saying, because you know I had a baby sat on my lap, and that probably wasn't the best thing to say.

Tamsin

So in 2010, I fell into the depths of depression where I was suicidal and I hadn't been until then. I got to the point where I needed because over time when I had had diazepam on and off, because they give me that in hospital, I have it for a bit, it helps me sleep, but I have never had to have it as a permanent thing, which I have been able to cope with.

Yeah – so then, um, so in 2010, I am at my dad's house, and I have gone beyond speech. I just couldn't speak any more. I fell into such a deep depression, I stopped eating and I stopped speaking, and I feel so strongly for my dad, it must have been horrible because I would literally – I was sat on the sofa, and I could see my daughter, and she was like two, maybe three, and I didn't want to do that to her I could see how she was starting to understand things properly, like mummy are you okay? Mummy what's going on? And I didn't want to make her think she – her mother's weird, I wanted to be all right. And so I fell into this depression and I could not move off the sofa, I couldn't physically move, and I couldn't eat the toast my dad was giving me, and I could hear my dad upstairs talking to psychiatrists trying desperately to contact someone so he could help me out. I don't know where my partner was, I can't remember if he was there or not, but my dad was desperate, I could hear it in his voice. So then my dad said right Tam, we've got you an appointment at Mill View come on we've got to go. And Nick came – I don't know where he was maybe he was at home, and then I went to this appointment at Mill View and there was a psychiatrist, and you know, I have met so many psychiatrists that do not sympathise, who do not have warmth, and are cold and don't know how to talk to people and just put people on drugs and don't give a shit. But this psychiatrist was really amazing she held my hand, and that is not normal practice, apparently, for psychiatrists. And she looked at me and she said Tamsin, I want to help, and I was talking and my dad was so overwhelmed because I had started talking, and he said this is the first time she has talked in ages, and he started crying, and my dad was crying and crying and my partner sat there, angry, just so bloody angry, you couldn't have got to more polar opposites emotions. He was sat there with a black look on his face, like don't you do this to me again, and my dad is there crying, and I could see it and I felt so bad, because I felt responsible, and the psychiatrist said to me I can offer you this option now that I can't remember in my mind this must have been at the appointment running up to going into Mill View, but, I think she um, also offered an option which was we can take you, if you have stopped breastfeeding, we can take you off olanzapine, and you can transfer onto quetiapine and you can have some time to think about that. And you know, ever since that time when I was on olanzapine I knew that I had had this drug quetiapine before, in 2002, and I knew that I recovered with that drug, and I had always thought, why, why didn't they look at my notes, and knows the drugs that I had had previously.

I was so grateful to her for having the insight to do that. And then on top of that she was sweet, she held my hand, and she said I think you need some nights in Mill View, and I so didn't want to go back into Mill View, it was Christmas time, it was December, and my mum was getting married, my mum was getting married at Christmas, and I had been buying all my Christmas presents, and I didn't want to go in there, but my dad was like, this will be for the best, and my partner well whatever he was thinking, who knows. So then I agreed, to go into Mill View, and they said it won't be long, you can be there just a few weeks, and it was, just a short time, but it was funny because, although I said I didn't want to go in, it's a dichotomy, because as well, I wanted – it's crazy – I wanted a holiday, I needed a break, I was exhausted, I was a mother, I needed a break. I was tired and so that's what it meant, that I went into Mill View for a holiday, and it was, um ironic because it was a huge snowfall and we had a lot of snow during that time, and it was so beautiful, and I remember seeing it out of my window, and I had an allotment, and I kept thinking about the snow on my allotment and, and… It's not nice, nobody can think of Mill View as a nice place, but I think the thing is I did see it as a holiday, a break, as time out, as time when I could sleep. Yeah, even the pressure of drugs, I managed that quite well this time, I remember lying on the bed and a psychiatric nurse offering me drugs in the little pot and I thought do I have to take these again, I can't bear it, and I just took, I took a random, like which one, like a sweet, and hoped they wouldn't ask for me to take another one, and they didn't. So it was quite good, I just took the one and that got me through the night, and I was surprised, waiting for them to go, you haven't taken those – but they were fine about it, and that's what I mean about Mill View has changed. Because of that wouldn't have happened years ago, they would have put pressure on you to take those drugs, but this time they said okay, fair enough.

Jon

And since you have been on the quetiapine you haven't been back to Mill View.

Tamsin

No, no I haven't, exactly, I have been on quetiapine the whole time and I have reduced it over the years, and I haven't been back, and, um, yeah. You see, it takes one person, one key psychiatrist who gets it, who can relate to that person, and they can help. I cannot tell you how many psychiatrists – 20 may be, I have been through so many psychiatrists who do not – who look at your notes, they look at their screen, they try to work out what the information is, they don't know who you are as a person, and then they – from that equation they say right well, you either stay on your drug for ever, or we will give you a bit of this.

But you know this woman, she knew. She either looked into my notes and saw that I had been on quetiapine or she knew, let's try this Tamsin, and I go into a psychiatrist appointment, may be different to other people, not with fear end that I am going to take loads of different medication. I go with the agenda that I am coming off medication, and that has been my agenda since I started. And this is where I think that the mental health system doesn't always get it not in this country, they make the assumption, and it does make me angry, that someone is matched with the drug and they say forever. Tick that box, forever. Nobody stays the same forever. Who does? Nobody, we are not robots. So you know, it's the constitution of someone, they, they change like the weather. You know people change, and you can't fix someone on a job and expect them, I mean to me that is not a life. I know people who have slept through their lives, that is not a life, you know and that is why I feel grateful to this particular psychiatrist because she saw who I was, she saw I was a person and that I was perceptive and she knew that I could be helped.

Jon

So this female psychiatrist in 2010 managed to achieve that transformation, and I have been talking to you about a transformation that happened more recently, this year, 2013, with your mother. Maybe we could just talk a little bit about that positive change.

Tamsin

Yeah, it was interesting actually, because again with the depression, I talked about it at Mill View like it was may be the beginning or the end, like it just happened there, but that depression didn't go away, even though I was put on the quetiapine, it didn't magically disappear. It's taken time, for the drug to work, for other things to work like homoeopathy, for things in my life to change, all these things to come together. Exercise, the way I am, my daughter growing up, all of these things. And, so all these things, all this time I have been coming up through a depression like layers coming away and even recently like, like this last year, the beginning of this year, I still was under a cloud, still struggling, I thought I wasn't, but I was.

And for me, writing has really helped achieve that, just writing, doing lots of writing, has made me get through those layers of depression, and um, I got to this point where I realised that I, that it had gone. And that involved waking up in the mornings and realising that the mornings I was enjoying, I was happy to wake up, and it's just, give anyone that, and life is fantastic, it's just so nice to be able to wake up and think I can do something today that I might like.

You know, that's really good, and I think with that interestingly enough, came this emergence of my own mother's depression which um, has been apparent through most of her life, or my brothers and sisters are aware of that, but because I was able to, because I have been able to work through a lot of my own mania and depression, and understand where that came from, and get a grasp on it, and be able to know how I can control it, then gave me the strength to be able to cope with the cold fact that my mum now, in the present time does have depression.

Jon

So it's this year that you have come to understand that your relationship had to change.

Tamsin

Yes, well the thing that has been ongoing for a few years, is that I kind of put my mum on hold, I started to just have to keep her at a distance I just couldn't handle phone calls, I just couldn't handle anything that used to be a dependency between us, it used to be like a comfort blanket, I would have endless phone calls, I mean partly the practicality of having a child means that can't happen, but a lot of things I didn't ever ring her for advice, I know she missed me she hated it. I know she missed us not having conversations, but it just wasn't working for me, I had to pretty much cut her off. I don't mean not speak to her, she came and visited me and all that, but I mean all the relationship that we had had until that point just was not working any more, and my only way of handling that was just to take some distance.

Jon

So in a sense you had to cut off your emotional, your deeper emotional relationship with her.

Tamsin

Yeah, and that was really hard, because I didn't want to, but I had to be really strong just for my own sanity. And then this year, may be something softened, maybe there was a slow realisation that she had been struggling, and that became apparent through a bit of alarm, she had had a stroke, and she had to have various MRI scans, and so once it got to that stage, it became more serious, for my siblings as well.

Now my big sister has two kids as well, and I have great conversations with her, and I will now fully say to my sister on the phone my mum has been a bitch, and I would never say that before to her because I would feel protective of my mum. But you know, it's acceptable I can speak that to my sister, and also my brothers, you know, and they have been great as well, so in a way, to handle her depression, which we have all handled since we were born probably, it goes back to her last child. My mum lost babies at birth, she lost them at birth, she had very clearly postnatal depression after her last daughter that's alive, which is my little sister, and now I look back at it in those days there was no treatment, no treatment for postnatal depression, it didn't exist even as a diagnosis so she was in bed eating breakfast, eating biscuits and breastfeeding my friend remembers, Tam she had picnics in bed all the time and she had the curtains closed, and when you look back on that I was a teenager coping with that, and I look back and I think she was depressed, and I just thought that was normal, a mother in bed breastfeeding, but it wasn't…

Jon

And you see this in relation to your own daughter, and not wanting to repeat, habits

Tamsin

Yup, it's very important point to make, I know it's not just my mum, it's not just my mum, my grandmother on my dad's side, very clearly had some form of postnatal depression, had to have a lot of support, she had four children, she got over it. And my maternal grandmothers, my grandmother on my mother's side although it was never diagnosed, I'm sure she had terrible depression, over the years. She didn't work that grandmother, she did a lot of pottery, and various making things, and they had a very bad relationship, so when I look back and see all that generational stuff behind me, I think there's no way I'm continuing that line of depression, I'm stopping it right here, and I'm very certain about that.

Jon

That's great, many, many thanks Tamsin, for sharing all that, it's wonderful stuff, I am just going to mention a couple of things that we might put with this archive, one of them is the Warning: May Contain Nuts book. Would you also like your more recent writing to accompany this?

Tamsin

About popping out of my depression, yes I would be quite happy for that to go in yes, it would be nice to have something positive, definitely.

Jon

Thank you very much, and all the best for the future.


Creative Writing for the Stories of Transformation project

Transformation happened recently to me. Suddenly I felt free. Free of a depression that had pinned me down for years, interspersed with periods of depression.

It was a slow process, but when it happened I'd say I popped out like a pea. Suddenly the luggage of my mother's life no longer rested on my shoulders. My brain felt space where her phone calls had been, where her woes had sat. I'm still in contact with her, only less often. Our closeness has changed, my comfort blanket of calling her has been pulled from beneath me. The calls were never good for my health. She leaned on me more than I realised, I took the weight of her loss, grief and depression. I refuse to pass that down the family line. I don't want my daughter carrying such a weight.

Now I feel weightless, but grounded. Free of ghosts, of a sad and difficult past, free of childhood sorrow.

Tamsin